Anti Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam

My Guestbook
20th Oct 1997 - 24th Oct 1997

Mr. Rumy: It is O.K. for any body to join the debate. We are all interested in investigating the truth. I did not get into an argument with you because it mixes up the argument. Regarding your statement that you do not use abusive language, let me be honest and frank with you. Having read a number of comments, injurious to the feelings of Ahmadi Muslims, I found you to be most foul mouthed person (I apologize for this). Salam.
Ahmadi <n.o.>
Ca USA - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 15:22:15 (EDT)

Messrs. Ahmadi, Aamir and other Qadianis! I didn't jump in debate between Mr. Ahmadi and Khalid Ismail. Just recall your comments of 20/10/97 on Khatamanabbyeen and my reply was in response to those and after comments. Any it doesn't matter. But question is this how did you dare to say me sectarian. I don't believe on any sect. My believe is that either some one is Muslim or is non-Muslim. Therefore it is not question what did you ask. Now the thing is why you people are trying to escape from real debate what actually you have started? I don't care with whom you are debating, As a Muslim it's my duty to inform you that do not confuse the literary words with the words of Holy Quran. Next point is who is using the abusive language you or me? Go and see your postings and mine. You will see all the abusive language is from your side. The word KAZIB (Liar) for Mirza Ghulam is not abuse. Be sure words are never be abusive but abusive is their use. Now if I use the word KAZIB for Mirza Ghulam I proved from his own writings that Mirza was KAZIB. He did lie many times. More over his claim of prophet-hood was a big lie .Due to this I use the word KAZIB (Liar) for him. May ALLAH give you HADYYET.
RUMY <NA>
RAHIM YAAR KHAN, PB ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 11:29:13 (EDT)

Mr Ahmadi. You guys have no habit of looking into any matter on your own. Whatever twisted material Jamaat provides, you read and start shouting. First of all Khitam is used in Quran about half a dozen different places. Go and read the Quran again. I previously gave the reference of two places, here these are again see ayats 36:65, 2:7 I already explain to you that word Khatam (meaning seal ) and Khitam (sealed) are the words from the same root. May be english spell are confusing you go and read these ayats in arabic. No body stops me investigating any religious matter (but you qadiani followers always believe what bishop Tahir and his diciples told you) because I know Allah will hold me responsible of my beliefs and deeds not any sufi or alam so I should follow Allah and his last prophet(saw). As for as these references which are twisted on your web page are concerned, One cannot make any informed opinion by picking a few lines from a book. Let me tell you none of these books are written on the subject of Khatam-un-Nabiyeen, So the authors may have discussed the subject of prophethood in some context. What I am saying is that if you have courage then put the full context on your web page (which can be few a pages or paragraphs I am not asking full book) but giving a few lines is a mis-quotation and cheating. I tried in my city and could not found a single book other wise I would have typed a few pages for you and would have shown you that these are the clear misquotation. So I cannot go any futher on these quotations because it will be a conjuncture to use these few lines to draw some meaning. And as for as Khatam-Nabi-yeen in the eyes of all mufasay-reen is concerned. In my previous post I have mentioned the three most famous ones who passed away centuries before Mirza Alkazib was born so you cannot blame that they were opponents of Alkazib. Here are the names of three famous ones again Ibn-Khatir, Tabari, Zamakhshari. Go and get all the earlier Islamic Mufasayreen and read them. But your cult has a history of producing third rate twisted interpretations to confuse and lead people astray.
Khalid Ismail <<>>
New York, USA - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 07:39:38 (EDT)

New Cult convert Ahmad Tahri: Qadianis win with argument ??? What a joke. Only on three accounts one cannot defeat Mirza Alkazib A) He died while having a dump. B) The way he used dirty language on the name of religious debates. C) The number of funny and silly predictions he created. As for as your conversion goes, I know very well how much you studied to get astray from Islam and landed into qadiani cult. Tell the truth that how a qadiani bimbo lead you into this cult charming you with her contours
Informer <<>>
Lahore, Pakistan - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 06:51:17 (EDT)

New Cult convert Ahmad Tahri: Qadianis win with argument ??? What a joke. Only on three accounts one cannot defeat Mirza Alkazib A) He died while having a dump. B) The way he used dirty language on the name of religious debates. C) The number of funny and silly predictions he created. As for as your conversion goes, I know very well how much you studied to get astray from Islam and landed into qadiani cult. Tell the truth that how a qadiani bimbo lead you into this cult charming you with her contours
Informer <<>>
Lahore , Pakistan - Friday, October 24, 1997 at 06:50:12 (EDT)

Mr. Rumy: I shall not get into debate with you because it sidetracks my argument with Mr. Khalid. I would rather wait for his response. However, you may want to respond to another person who has accused you of pandering to sunnis to betray your Shi'ism. SalaVh
Ahmadi <n.o.>
Ca USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 22:23:52 (EDT)

Mr. Ahmadi ! Here I am concerned about the word "Khatam". You have qouted 40 words where Khatam is used. Read these words again and think do they give the meanings of " End" eg Khatam-ush-Shu'arra is used for a poet. It means that this poet 's poetry is end of poetry. No body can write better than him. But as this title is awarded by his fans therefore it is exaggerative in meanings but acceptable as poetic diction. In an other example you quoted Khatam -al-auliyaa. Again it's a title to a Wali from his fans. All these words are not Quranic. They are poetic exaggerations. As in one poem one famous Urdu poet Mir Taqqi Mir says about the lips of his beloved that they are more delicate then rose petal. Or another poet is telling about heat in KARBALA and says " that day it was so hot that if any grain fell down on earth it was roasted." Mr. Ahmadi these type of exaggerations are very common in titles and poetry. And these poetic words are not true in their meanings. Therefore someone can't be allowed to distort the meanings of Holy Quran with the help of these type examples. You know Mirza Kazib Ghulam A Qadiani himself was very confused. This was the reason that sometimes he claimed himself as MAHDI, who was a Imam not a prophet. But under the fear of his British masters (As Mahadi Sudani has given them a tough time) he claimed Jesus himself and prophet-hood. Then some one asked him "your progress is very fast. Yesterday you was GAAMA (in Punjab its common nick name for Ghulam) then you become Ghulam Ahmed then Babu Ghulam Ahmed (again Babu is name used for Indian clerks at the British Govt in India) then you claimed Mahdi Maoud Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian and now you are claiming prophet-hood . " You know what was his answer he said " I am Adam, I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am Ishmael, I am Moses, I am Jesus son of Marry, I am Mohammed (S.A.W) " ( Roohani Khazain vol 22 , p.521). May Almighty Allah give you Haddayet.
RUMY <NA>
RAHIM YAAR KHAN, PB ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 19:12:38 (EDT)

Mr. Farahan Qureshy and other Qadianis! Its true that millions of people dying not accepting the truth of Islam and Holy Prophet Hazzarat Muhammad S.A.W. It's true that people were not accepting prophets in their life. But it doesn't mean that every one who claims Prophet hood we have to accept him. First of all we will see ' is there any place for new prophet? In Holy Quran Almighty ALLAH has closed the doors by saying " Today I have completed DEEN and Liked Islam for you" (Al Quran) . In Surah-e-Ahzab (33:40) it is said that Hazzarat Muhammad S.A.W. is last and final Prophet of God. Therefore there is no more room for any new Prophet at all. Secondly we will see what is the life history of Claimer. When Hazzarat Muhammad S.A.W. claimed Prophet hood , in his first speech with people of Makkah He has asked about his truthfulness and honesty. All the people present there were agreed with his truthfulness and Honesty. After confirmation of His personality he told them that God has awarded him Prophet-hood . Now lets see the personality of Mirza Ghulam. As Dr Rashid (on 11 Oct. 97 posting) proved from Hadith and life history of Mirza Ghulam that he was complete MUNAFIQ (hypocrite) and dishonest. A MUNAFIQ can't be a prophet. Moreover can you quote any example of any prophet who had said this type of irresponsible statement as Mirza had. " At the age of 40, first God made me Marry, then he made me pregnant. After two years I delivered my self as Jesus Christ. This is how I become Jesus son of Marry" ( Roohani Khazain vol 19 page 548). A famous and devout Qadiani writer Qazi Yaar Muhammad had attested it by saying---- Mirza said " I saw myself as if I am a woman and ALLAH (SWA) expressed in me his reproductive powers of manliness". (Zabiat-ul-Islam page 34). This shows he was not Munafiq only he was MUSHRIK too. One more example of his false claim of prophet-hood. Once he said " How can it be permissible for me to get out of the pale of Islam and to join the party of infidels, by claiming prophethood." Then he said " I claim that I am a messenger and a prophet." (Anouncement in Badr Newspaper, dated 5th March 1908 by Mirza) In his book Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Isalam, p 547 he said " Except for the children of prostitutes, whose hearts have been sealed by God, all the rest have accepted my prophet-hood" . This type of examples are only found in Mirza's biography. For the people who have vision it is very opened that Mirza Ghulam was a Kazib and Munafiq. Therefore people who follows a MUNAFIQ they are out of fold of Islam. This is the reason we Muslim use the word Non Muslim for Ahmadi's/Qadiani's/ Mirzai's. May God give you Haddayyet.
RUMY <NA>
RAHIM YAAR KHAN, PB ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 19:09:00 (EDT)

I am not a born Ahmadi Muslim. I studied and opted the right faith. You people have lost the war of arguments with Ahmadies and now you have only one option left. The option of Abu-Jahal, Salman rushdi or Sawami Dianand (the satan who wrot book 'Rangeela Rasool'). You are liar. I can bet that your site will not change the heart of a single Ahmadi-Muslim. You have crossed the limits of lthe owest level of indecency and have gone to the lowest possible level in liaing and attributing concocted beliefs and stories towards the people of God. Your style and behavior is comparable with the Quraish of Makkah. You wrongly believe that lies, violance, torture and abusive language can stop this movement. May Allah forgive you and show alll of us the right path. For those who read these words, please visit the Ahmadiyya web sites or if possible read their litterature. Compare the arguments, think with cool head and follow your concience. God bless all the humanity and save from his curse alll of us (specially who attribute dirty lies towards prophets of Allah).
Ahmed Tahri <Ahmed Tahri>
Mississauga, Ontario Canada - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 16:25:09 (EDT)

Mr. Khalid Ismail: (1). You want me to debate with you 'khatam' and 'khitam'. This will be waste of time. Quran does not use the word 'khitam'. Also the scholars I have mentioned they were recognized authorities on the Arabic language. You and me are not. So I don't see any reason in reinventing the wheel by novices. (2). You want the whole article on the web page by each scholar. This is unfortunatey not possibe because the quotations are from books and not two page or three page articles. However, I have given you the web address that has full reference to the tite of the book, and the author. You have to go to ibrary to consult it. Putting books on the web site may be possibe one day but not as of now and you know this. You are simpy trying to find a way out by asking me to do something undoable at present. (3). You say that the quotations from those sources are not in the context of 'khatamannabiyyeen'. If you say so then I say that your statement is based on dishonesty and intention to mislead the readers of this page. You, or ather readers, can go to a library and read the context. For sure these authors were talking about the interpretation of 'khatamannabiyyeen'. If you disagree then, on this web page, write the page number that proves your point. (4). You say that Shah Waliullah simply states that 'a prophet can come' but does not state that 'a prophet will come'. My question now is: "Do you agree that a prophet can come now but will not come' is the interpretation of 'khatamannabiyyeen' by Shah sahib? (5) You state that many Muslim scholars in the past have interpretted the term 'khatamannabiyyeen' as the last prophet. I have no qurrel with you about that. I know late Maulana Mauddodi, Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi and a number of other scholars agree with you. However, my question to you have been that 'why dont you call those scholars who agree with the Jamaat Ahmadiyya's interpretation as kafirs and non Muslims?' (6). If you accept that you call Ahmadis kafirs and non Muslims because they believe in Mirza Ghula Ahmad as an ummati nabi or because they interpret the term 'khatamannabiyyeen' as the last law bearing prophet after whom ummati prophets can come? (7). I give another web address for an explanatory purposes and interest to the readers of this web page; http://205.208.6.1/sultan/articles/khatam.html I pray to Allah that you will use honesty to answer my question and not simply to stick to your untanable position. Wassalaam.
Ahmadi <n.o>
Ca USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 13:16:59 (EDT)

I have read the web page which you have mentioned and most of those scholars which you have quoted are not even discussing the word Khatam-Nabi-yeen or no mention of the verse of Quran which discusses this subject. What is very obvious from this whole fiasco given on this web page is that only one or two line of each of those scholars are picked with no context or subject mentioned. If you are really fair with them then put full articles on your web page so people can clearly see that what these scholars are talking about. Like in case of Shah Wali Ullah you quoted ''There cannot be an independent prophet after the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, who is not his follower and his adherent.' Where he is saying that a prophet will come after Hazrat Muhammad (SAW). In what context he had written the above line only one can make any sense of this line if he has the full article. All the instances which are quoted on your web page has your interpretations before and after their one or two lines.. You tried to put words in their mouth. If Qadiani clan has really fair with others and themselves then copy full articles (which you will never do because this will disclose your misquotations and plagiarism). Why don't you quote all the mufusay-reen from the time of Prophet (SAW) to this day whose commentary of this verse of quran says the end of prophethood except Mirza. And what about a dozen or so hadees which were never disputed by anybody in the history of Islam except Mirza. I told you already your hearts are sealed. Why don't you give me some answer about the details which I have provided you about the use of Khatam and Khitam in quran ( Dispute my explanation with some counter argument). You have nothing to say on it except to distract to some thing else. A very known Qadiani practice
Khalid Ismail <<>>
New York , USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 03:49:37 (EDT)

Mr. Khalid Ismail: You are not answering my question. I have given you the names of 20 Muslim scholars who interpret 'Khataan nabiyyeen' the way we Ahmdis do. Once more look at my Oct.17 comment. Go to the web address www.alislam.org/pakistan/ref/khatam.htm Read for yourself the original writings of these ulama. You say Maulana Roomi was a poet. O.K. leave him. What about Shah Waliullah, Maulana Nanotavi (founder of Devband) and other mentioned ulama. Don't run by waving your tail like a fox. Either you show me that these ulama have expressed a different opinion in the mentioned reference or agree that your pride and arrogance stand in the way of your accepting the falsehood of your positionVh
Ahmadi <n.o>
Ca USA - Thursday, October 23, 1997 at 00:59:43 (EDT)

Mr. Ahmadi & Other Qadiani Clan: I explained to you the principle of Quranic message & language and use of words Khatam & Khitam in Quran. I also told you that over the period of time this word is extrapolated to the meaning of best. This kind of extrapolation of words is not unusual in the evolution of any languages which are due to social, cultural and religious influences. If people had used this word in extrapolated meaning after the advent of Islam than it must not influence and change the actual meaning of this word in Quran. Many Muslim scholars over the centuries used this word in the single meaning of last and some others also used this word in the extrapolated meaning of best in addition to last (None of them ever disputed the original meaning seal to close). Al l the famous earlier mu-fasay-reen in their commentary of Quran translated Khatam as to close (See the commentary of Ibn-Khatir, Tabari, Zamakhshari). The Arabic of Quran is 1400 years old. While understanding the exact context and meaning one must translate and interpret it in the way the word were used in context and meaning at that time and must follow the principle which I have mentioned in my previous post (no contradiction in the meaning of words from the same root). One must not lose the sight of its original meaning while mentioning any extrapolated meaning. If you discard this principle than every thing is up in the air. One can produce any desired interpretation of the verses of Quran. Also do not forget a dozen or more Hadees in this regard (Muhammad (saw) being the last Prophet (pbuh)) which are never disputed by any known scholar in last 1400 years. Even the extrapolated meaning of Khatam as you said is best then how on Earth Mirza further distorted and twisted this word to extract the meaning of Seal to open something. Even the scholars who extrapolated this word in the meaning of best never pointed out this as a seal to open something. When mind and hearts are sealed (as Allah said in his holy book) then no amount of scholorship will satisfy you. You always deviate and drift from clear explanations and try to extract some far fetched twisted explanation to justify Mirza's prophethood but it is not working.
Khalid Ismail <<>>
New York, USA - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 23:26:24 (EDT)

Ah Tail of Iblees Rumy, how r u? Rumy i learned about u that u r SHIA. Anyway, what do u believe regaurding AZEEM TARIQ of Jhung. Who declare SHIA as THE KAFIR. Just like to know what do u believe regaurding Hazret Ubu bakar (rz)and Usman + Umar (rz) Please don't try to make your word, just tell your belief. Just another peace of advice, if u have decide to change you faith after my asking, then please work hard to explain the facts and truth to Shia brothers, rather than to waist your time talking to ahmadies. Because Ahmadies have been facing so many DUJJAL like u since last 100 years. And by the grace of Allah they always win. You people have history to bark, it is your job to bark. Because if u don't bark Arab Kings won't pay your bills. You know the only problem that u people have with ahmadies is their prospect. Anyway keep burning!!!!! it is always better to have little practice & experience, You know what i mean.......about next.... Have fun chief!!!!
Amir <<>>
Raheem Yaar Khan, Pakistan - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 19:33:16 (EDT)

Mr/Ms Ahmadi Qadiani! After the detail reply of brother Khalid Ismail there is no need to say more about your comments and question. But here I just want to tell you about your mentioned quotations of great Muslim Scholars and saints. As usual you people have misquoted these references. One is from MASNAVI of MAULANA JALAL-UD-DIN ROOMI. (Masnavi is kind of persian or urdu poem., where poet narrates a story with philosophical touch). That MASANAVI is neither translation nor interpretation of any verse of Holy Quran. Therefore mentioning those two lines from that long poem and quoting as interpretation to Holy Quran is not fair. You know in one poem at one place he said " find the God in yourself" . Now you will interpret his saying that he supported the FAROAH and NAMROOD who claimed GOD. Then your 2nd quotation was from a saying of Hazzarat Immam Jaffar Sadiq. (RA). Again that is neither translation nor explanation` of Khatamun nabiyyeen. `. That is a explaination of DARUD SHAREEF. He (RA) said ' that" family of Hazzarat Ibrahim (AS) was blessed with Prophethood [All the prophets from Hazzarat Ismail(AS) or Hazzarat Ishaq (AS) to Last and Final Prophet Hazzarat Muhammad (SAW)all were from Hazzarat Ibrahim's (AS) family] and Hazzarat Mohammed's (SAW) is blessed with IMMAMAT." Be sure this is explanation of DARUD SHAREEF What all Muslims say in PRAYER. "…. O ALLAH BLESS MUHAMMAD AND HIS FAMILY AS YOU HAVE BLESSED IBRAHIM AND HIS FAMILY……" Same story is about Ibn-e Arabi, Shahwali Allah and all Muslim Saints. I couldn't understand how did you dare to co-relate with Mirza Kazib's interpretations. Mirza Kazib Ghulam A qadiani was mentally sick. Once he said " Names of MAKKAH, MADINA and QADIAN are mentioned in holy Quran with respect." (Roohani Khazain vol 3. Izala-e-auham p 140) Thanks God he was not living in my city Rahim Yaar Khan or some Mohalla (Suburb) of Qadian RAHMAN PURA otherwise he had said they are also mentioned in Holy Quran as " Rahman ur Rahim" . Now you want to know why we Muslims say Mirza Kazib Ghulam A Qadiani was and his followers are Non Muslim? For this please read my next posting (INSHA ALLAH tomorrow) May God give you Haddayet.
RUMY <NA>
RAHIM YAAR KHAN, PB ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 10:59:19 (EDT)

Mr. Khalid Ismail: Your statement that Ahmadis have used the qoutations of various Muslim scholars out of context and that they are patchy pickings is inaccurate. I challenge you to show me from the mentioned publications from where those statements are taken that those scholars had given different views at another place. You also incorrectly state that khatam cannot be used as the greatest but only as the one chronologically last. Remember Quran is revealed in Arabic and hence its meaning and interpretation follows the rules of language. Below I give you some examples of the word 'khatam' used to interpret the greatest and not the last: 1.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA (seal of poets) was used for the poet Abu Tamam. (Wafiyatul A'yan, vol. 1, p. 123, Cairo) 2.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA again, used for Abul Tayyeb. (Muqaddama Deewanul Mutanabbi, Egyptian p. 4) 3.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA again, used for Abul 'Ala Alme'ry. (ibid, p.4, footnote) 4.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA used for Shaikh Ali Huzain in India. (Hayati Sa'di, p. 117) 5.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA used for Habeeb Shairaazi in Iran. (Hayati Sa'di, p. 87) Note here that all five people have been given the above title. How could it be interpreted as "last". They did not come and go at the exact same time. 6.KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA (seal of saints) for Hazrat Ali (May God be pleased with him). (Tafsir Safi, Chapter AlAhzab) Can no other person now attain wilaayat, if "seal" meant last? 7.KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA used for Imam Shaf'ee. (Al Tuhfatus Sunniyya, p. 45) 8.KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA used for Shaikh Ibnul 'Arabee. (Fatoohati Makkiyyah, on title page) 9.KHATAM-AL-KARAAM (seal of remedies) used for camphor. (Sharah Deewanul Mutanabbee, p. 304) Has no medicine been found or used after camphor, if "seal" means "last"? 10.KHATAM-AL-A'IMMAH (seal of religious leaders) used for Imam Muhammad 'Abdah of Egypt. (Tafseer Alfatehah, p. 148) Don't we have leaders today? 11.KHATAM-ATUL-MUJAHIDEEN (seal of crusaders) for AlSayyad Ahmad Sanosi. (Akhbar AlJami'atul Islamiyyah, Palestine, 27 Muharram, 1352 A.H.) 12.KHATAM-ATUL-ULAMAA-ALMUHAQQIQEEN (seal of research scholars) used for Ahmad Bin Idrees. (Al'Aqadun Nafees) 13.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN (seal of researchers) for Abul Fazl Aloosi. (on the title page of the Commentary Roohul Ma'aanee) 14.KHATAM-AL-MUHAQQIQEEN used for Shaikh AlAzhar Saleem Al Bashree. (Al Haraab, p. 372) 15.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN used for Imam Siyotee. (Title page of Tafseerul Taqaan) 16.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN (seal of narrators) for Hazrat Shah Waliyyullah of Delhi. ('Ijaalah Naafi'ah, vol. 1) 17.KHATAMAT-AL-HUFFAAZ (seal of custodians) for AlShaikh Shamsuddin. (AlTajreedul Sareeh Muqaddimah, p. 4) A "hafiz" is one who has memorised the full arabic text of the Holy Quran. Two of my cousins happen to belong to this category and more people will memorize it. 18.KHATAM-AL-AULIA (seal of saints) used for the greatest saint. (Tazkiratul Auliyaa', p. 422) 19.KHATAM-AL-AULIA used for a saint who completes stages of progress. (Fatoohul Ghaib, p. 43) 20.KHATAM-ATUL-FUQAHAA (seal of jurists) used for Al Shaikh Najeet. (Akhbaar Siraatal Mustaqeem Yaafaa, 27 Rajab, 1354 A.H.) 21.KHATAM-AL-MUFASSIREEN (seal of commentators or exegetes) for Shaikh Rasheed Raza. (Al Jaami'atul Islamia, 9 Jamadiy thaani, 1354 A.H.) 22.KHATAM-ATUL-FUQAHAA used for Shaikh Abdul Haque. (Tafseerul Akleel, title page) 23.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN (seal of researchers) for Al Shaikh Muhammad Najeet. (Al Islam Asr Shi'baan, 1354 A.H.) 24.KHATAM-AL-WALAAYAT (seal of sainthood) for best saint. (Muqaddimah Ibne Khuldoon, p. 271) 25.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN WAL MUFASSIREEN (seal of narrators and commentators) used for Shah 'Abdul 'Azeez. (Hadiyyatul Shi'ah, p. 4) 26.KHATAM-AL-MAKHLOOQAAT AL-JISMAANIYYAH (seal of bodily creatures) used for the human being. (Tafseer Kabeer, vol. 2, p. 22, published in Egypt) 27.KHATAM-ATUL-HUFFAAZ used for Shaikh Muhammad Abdullah. (Al Rasaail Naadirah, p. 30) 28.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN used for Allaama Sa'duddeen Taftaazaani. (Shara' Hadeethul Arba'een, p. 1) 29.KHATAM-ATUL-HUFFAAZ used for Ibn Hajrul 'Asqalaani. (Tabqaatul Madlaseen, title page) 30.KHATAM-AL-MUFASSIREEN (seal of commentators) used for Maulvi Muhammad Qaasim. (Israare Quraani, title page) 31.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN (seal of narrators) used for Imam Siyotee. (Hadiyyatul Shee'ah, p. 210) 32.KHATAM-AL-HUKKAAM (seal of rulers) used for kings. (Hujjatul Islam, p. 35) 33.KHATAM-AL-KAAMILEEN (seal of the perfect) used for the Holy Prophet (pbuh). (Hujjatul Islam, p. 35) 34.KHATAM-AL-MARAATAB (seal of statuses) for status of humanity. ('Ilmul Kitaab, p. 140) We have the "highest, not "last" status. 35.KHATAM-AL-KAMAALAAT (seal of miracles) for the Holy Prophet (pbuh). (ibid, p. 140) 36.KHATAM-AL-ASFIYAA AL A'IMMAH (seal of mystics of the nation) for Jesus (peace be on him). (Baqiyyatul Mutaqaddimeen, p. 184) 37.KHATAM-AL-AUSIYAA (seal of advisers) for Hazrat Ali (R.A.A.). (Minar Al Hudaa, p. 106) 38.KHATAM-AL-MU'ALLIMEEN (seal of teachers/scholars) used for the Holy Prophet(pbuh). (Alsiraatul Sawee by Allama Muhammad Sabtain Now, I am a teacher myself, and you know that I still exist, AFTER the Holy Prophet (pbuh), but I am nowhere close to being able to teach as PERFECTLY as he could or did. How then could he be "last" ofthe Holy Prophet (pbuh), but I am nowhere close to 39.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN (seal of narrators) for Al Shaikhul Sadooq. (Kitaab Man Laa Yahdarahul Faqeeh) 40.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN used for Maulvi Anwar Shah of Kashmir. (Kitaab Raeesul Ahrar, p. 99) More of this research is available on Ahmadiyya web sites.I have just pasted a part from there. Now Mr. Ismail, how can you say that Ahmadis have cooked up a new interpretation of the word 'khatam'. Could you please answer my question now?%Vh
Ahmadi <n.o>
Ca USA - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 09:52:25 (EDT)

Mr. Niazi: You are just a big mouth. Think ogically before drawing conclusions. Did Prophet Muhammad (SAS) not come to unite the whole world under one flag or at east those who believed in him. Do you know how much he preached against disunity among the Muslims. What happened within 30 years of his death? There were wars between Muslim armies. Khawarajis and Shias came into being. Would you (Naoozbilah) curse Prophet Muhammad (SAS) because of this? Just use some sense before cursing other people.
Walt <u.r>
USA - Wednesday, October 22, 1997 at 00:12:27 (EDT)

Dear Mr.Khalid Ismail and other non-ahmadies. Millions of people have died not accepting the truth of the Holy Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. These unfortunate people never acknowledged the greatest person who ever set foot on this earth. Similarly, your not accepting the truth of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian does not mean anything. All prophets of Allah are mocked and are called liars; this is mentioned in the Quran. You too may die without accpeting his truthful cliam of being the messiah and mahdi. But you or anyone else who calls him a liar cannot take away the truth of his mission. There will come a day, maybe not in my lifetime and not in your lifetime, but there will come a day when the truth of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will become apparent. You believe that Jesus(a.s) will descend from heaven. You think irrationally; if Jesus will descend from heaven, what is the difference between our great religion Islam and greek mythology. You believe in a myth. Ahmadies believe in rationality. That is the difference.
Farhan Qureshy <none>
Chicago, IL U.S. - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 18:55:53 (EDT)

I HAVE HEARD QADIANIES SAYING MIRZA GULAM AHMAD (may allah curse him)WAS SENT BY ALLAH TO LEAD MUSLIMS AND UNITE THEM BECAUSE MUSLIMS WERE SCATERED,DISORGANISED AND DEVIDED IN GROUPS AND THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT HOW GOOD, UNITED AND UNDIVIDED THEY ARE BUT CAN ANY QADIYYANI EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE LAHORI GROUP AND ITTIHAD UL ALAMIN ARE. THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT THERE ARE GROUPS WITH IN QADIYYANIES. THEY EXISTANCE OF GROUPS IN QADIYANIES IS ENOUGH TO PROVE THEM WRONG. IF MIRZA HAD BEEN ALIVE I WOULD HAVE MADE HIM EAT HIS WORDS.
ZARRAR AHMAD KHAN NIAZI <>
SLOUGH, ENGLAND UNITED KINGDOM - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 09:49:02 (EDT)

Mr Ahmad & Other members of Qadiani Baradiri of this guestbook. Probably you run out of your Drama visions. One plausible reason may be that your master and mentor Iblees and his 2nd in command Mirza Tahir Qadiani are busy in other dubious and destructive jobs and could not spare any time to initiate your drama visions. Anyway lets come back to Khatum-Nabeeyeen. First of all the quotations which your web page provided from Muslim Ulama and saints are very patchy picking of one or two lines from their writings suppressing all the context and subject. Picking one line out of may be ten pages and then presenting with distorted meaning is a typical qadiani attempt throughout the history of this cult. Does these ulama explicitly said that there will be another prophet after Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (SAW). First let me tell you one very basic rule implied in Quran. We believe it is a book of Allah. And it will never be altered or changed (in its original script as promised by Allah). In Quran a word ( Verb or noun) is never used in contradictory meaning. The same word either it is a verb or noun is used in supportive or favourable meaning to each other. Never a word is used any where in Quran which has at one place one meaning and then at another place with totally contradictory meaning to previous usage. Now lets examine the word Khatam, it is used only once in Quran (keep in mind it is a noun) and its adjective which is sealed (khitam is used approx. at five different places). Now every time when this word is used as Khitam it is always used as to close or end something ( ie. see 36:65, 2:7). Similarly the noun Khatam is used as a seal to close or end something. Now one begs the question that why some of the Ulama had mentioned the additive or extrapolated meaning of best in addition to last or end or closure. The most obvious reason was because it is great honour for a prophet (pbuh) upon whom the Allah's revelation(Quran) got to its highest point (to perfection as stated in Quran) and is promised to be preserved by Allah for all the coming generations ( also indicated by Allah that Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is Rahmat-ullil-Alameen His (SAW) message will be source of Hadayat for all generations). Previously prophets were send to their own nation or tribe and also all of their revelations were lost or altered and changed some times after their departure from this world. Now from where Mirza Qadiani came up with the meaning of Seal as to open something (totally in contradiction with the spirit and the principle of Quran which I mentioned earlier). He came up with another twisted idea of subordinate prophet which never happened in history of prophethood. Every Prophet was prophet on his own right and his revelations came from Allah. Though all prophets(pbut) are like brothers from the same family and came to guide the people according to will of Allah at different times in history till the last prophet(SAW) came for the entire mankind and for all generations to come with the perfect message(Quran) which is here to stay till the end of the mankind with no alteration in its text as promised by Allah. Probably this explanation should be enough if your hearts are not fully sealed by Allah. Throughout the history of this cult the entire Qadiani leadership produced so much twisted material and created so much dust in front of qadiani followers that they can never see anything beyond their nose and always label very intelligent Muslims to be misguided by Maulvi's but in fact they themselves are totally brain-washed and blind-folded by Qadiani leadership. Mirza was the unfortunate individual who changed his own statements time and again. He in his early days of venturing debates and religious writings said a couple of times that Khatam means last and used this word as the seal in the meaning of end or last but then later on changed his mind and said it is a seal to issue something. One ill-informed Qadiani (Amir) said that Allah destroy Kazib's at their birth. You are totally wrong Allah don't send his angels to kill liars and disbelievers., They will be given their appointed time and may be worldly achievements as well (as we can see many many non-believers, arrogants and liars around with all worldly success) but surely they will be doomed hereafter although qadianism is very very small cult after their very intense missionary efforts for hundred long years and never appeared to have any notable influence to the history of religion and mankind. It is virtually unattended and unknown to 99.99 % of mankind after 100 years, despite the monumental efforts by the cult followers and missionaries. I can only wish that one day Allah may guide you to the right path
Khalid Ismail <<>>
New York, USA - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 06:49:47 (EDT)

Very happy to have found your site this morning. I am a new convert since last August, Profession of Faith in September. I attend a Turkish Mosque with traditional views, sharing yours. I remain in touch with you. Hanza.
Hamza (Philippe) De Coster <philipps.de.coster@skynet.be>
Gent, Belgium - Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at 01:08:03 (EDT)

Hello, Hello and Hello my dear ladies & Jentelmen: It is Nawaz Shreef, i am sorry i missed u people alot, please forgive me. Actually our dear Queen was here and u know all that behaph of all u people i had to kiss her BUTT a lot in order to survive as humen, and also to keeo happy our masters. Anyway, now i am back if anyone like to chat with me please come farwered and ask anything u like to. i,ll be keep writting anyway. Any way RUMY my old friend HOW ARE U TODAY?????? won't u say to me hi. Great Mian Nawaz Shreeef, Humble servent of Great Pakistan.
Nawaz Shreef <Not allow to give>
Islamabad, Pakistan - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 22:29:05 (EDT)

RUMY & co. I just like to ask you the progress of ahmadiyyat. Your elder's tounges got sharp to speak against ahmadies. They spoke exactly like you Kafir, munafiq, kazib, liar. Just humbly, were they or have you been seccessful???. SHAME ON YOU!! BIG ONE !!!!!I thought Allah destroys kazibs quickly after their birth. Are you sure the Allah (whom you belive) is not kidnaped by Ahmadies????? Again SHAME ON YOU > BIG ONE. I know it won't come to you. Anyway, may Satan be with you ( try now)
Amir <Why>
Raheem yaar khan, Pakistan - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 19:55:36 (EDT)

Mr Ahmadi: Why r u wasting your time to explain things to a dead body. talk like Mr. Ahmed. I said earlier that the tail of Dog can be straight but these people like Rumy cannot understand,(although he calls himself smart audience) simply they do not have ability to understand. Don't u see yourself that u r asking something else & he,s answering totally different. Did this bloody Rumy answer Ahmed's statment where he queted those Ulamas about the royality of British Queen. these people always wants to escap. they have to write on this page because they got to show their bills to Arab Kings and Ameers and also keep want to have the blessing to KISS their BUTT
Ali <<>>
Halifax, - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 19:41:11 (EDT)

Dear Mr. Rumy: Assalamoalakum: As regards the translation of 'Khatamannabiyyeen' is concerned there is no difference between Ahmadi and nonAhmadi Muslims. The translation of the word , as given by The Presidencey of Islamic Researches, IFTA, Call and Guidance' organization of the Saudi Arabian Government is 'the seal of prophets'. M.J.Dawood's translation also is the same. Ahmadis translate it as the 'seal of prophets' also. However, the interpretation differs. Ahmadis and those ulama whose names I have mentioned in my comment of Friday Oct. 17 interpret 'khatamannabiyyeen' as the last law bearing prophet and the most exalted prophet and that new prophets can come after Prophet Muhammad (SAS) but they will the shariat of Prophet Muhammad (SAS) and will remain his ummatis. However, some nonAhmadi ulama interpret it as the last prophet in time, i.e. no prophet will come after him. Mr. Rumy you have quoted the Ahmadiyya interpretation in your comment very well. To look at the interpretation of the word by the ulama whose interpretation is the same as that of Ahmadis, I have given you the web address. Here it is once more www.alislam.org/pakistan/ref/khatam.htm. You don't have to accept the translation of the opinion of these Muslim scholars' statements. You can do it yourself: the original opinions are given on the web address. Full references to the quotations are also provided. In some cases the original opinion is in Urdu. So no translation is needed. Now would you please take a moment to answer my question. And my question is: "Why don't you call these Muslim scholars nonMuslims if you call Ahmadis nonMuslims?" I hope this will provide you all the information you wanted to answer my question. Also Mr. Rumy, please be brief so that the readers are not confused. You can call us names in another comment. Thank you. Wassalaam.
Ahmadi <n.o>
Ca USA - Monday, October 20, 1997 at 12:22:46 (EDT)